Maybe this time, as we reach the event-horizon of singularity, we’ll actually do what we’ve always intended… destroy God and attain our own apotheosis.

Or maybe, just like the first time, God will descend.

To bring the term GOD into RELATIONSHIP with The Singularity is rather funny as neither WORD is relative but both equal terms for the ABSOLUTE. A NO-thing does not relate to things like the things relate to one another so “relate” is not quite the word. Einstein was really on to something folks!

Today the word God has indeed been thrown right into the mix with all other words as if it is a normal player on the board. This gives us a Cartoon God who certainly will have a Mascot Jesus right at his side. These clear images of the phony God from the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel with beard and pointing finger and also from other places with a clearly opposite sterotype Shepherd holding lambs or other kids are just too anthropomorphic to be taken with seriousness. No wonder the A students leave organized religion in droves as they put truth as more important than traditional authority.

In Christian theology GODHEAD at the depth of Trinity, In mystical philosophy the ONE, and from our friends the physicists The Singularity agree with Meister Eckhert that we need the “God beyond God” and with Paul Tillich that God is no mere single definite being but rather the GROUND of BEING itself. Can’t touch that!
There,Here,Then,Now,the beauty of the symetry of the physicists formula and the beauty of the poems and parables begin to point to some NOTHING beyond which is TOTALLY HERE just as the acorn is there in the oak but then it is not there at all. To say that God exists in the same way as other things is to craft one more idol any idiot can chop down. To say that “God” does not exist is also just fine so long as it is that dude in everyone’s imagination. Now concerning that God who said do not make any image whatsoever.. well that is another matter but certainly not mere matter but not avoiding matter for some “place” else. Just exactly what will THE Singularity look like? We may only have a limited concept from our very limited viewpoint. The truth of what the Singularity would be like would be better known by The Singularity. The true God or true Singularity is only known from within its own understanding and no finite being can comprehend (Infinity,God,the Singularty,The One,Tri-ONE,NO-thing) even though we toss thoese words about as if Webster’s definitions really does them justice. When people get serious and literal about their definitions of such they tend to fly planes into buildings. Poems,Parables,Songs,and beautiful scientific formulas that point to TRUTH held with humility knowing no part is ever the whole might make for a better time at this party.
Thank ‘God’ for the scientists and truth lovers and people who think OUT OF THE BOXES or at least are growing in that direction. Things that do not grow and change and move…are dead.

Interesting thoughts. I would add that, seeing as there is an order and hierarchy of infinite numbers, might there not also be an order and hierarchy of infinite beings? We assume that once you hit infinity, you’ve met God, but maybe not.

Mbnyan–

Frank Tipler suggests something similar here. I would only say that if I’m a post-singularity being, then being such is not nearly as big a deal as I thought it would be!

screwball –

On the idea of “saving God,” Have you read God’s Debris by Scott Adams? it touches on a similar (sort of) idea.

Brandon –

Good question. I’m adding it to the list.

One is Luke 12: 2-3 which in the KJV reads:

For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

The other is from the Doctrine and Covenants (Section 130:9) of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:

“This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.”

The Urim and Thummim, Hebrew for lights and truths, are two crystal stones used to aid in the reception of revelation.

The Singularity is not God, but it may be more like the Mind of God.

Does the Singularity bring us closer to God?

Does God show up at the Singularity?

Are we going to somehow create God?

Are we going to somehow become God?

I would add:

Is the Singularity God?

Over at Instapundit, where I found the link that brought me here, Reynolds made the passing comment that some people had referred to the Singularity as “the rapture for nerds”. There may be more truth in that than he thinks, though — belief in the Singularity seems to fill the same psychological/spiritual (pick either or both) niche as belief in God does. And both the Singularity and God are, ultimately, incomprehensible to us poor merehums.

Anywho, thanks for posting this. It’s given me food for thought — and another interesting blog to explore!

The problem with the world’s view of Americans is that we (the rest of the world) usually only see the problems as shown by hollywood and CNN (and other news networks). The fact is that Americans are no less moral then Europeans (although both Americans and Europeans seem to have the belief that they are the moral ones). And just like Europeans, there is not one set of ethical values, although there is a strong undercurrent of respecting your church (whichever one you belong to). It’s kinda funny, really, how many people in the States seem to expect everyone to respect the values of their own churches (you respect your church’s beliefs, I’ll respect mine, now let’s go bowling). This may be the reason why moderate American Muslims can thrive in the States while their French brethren are disenfranchised.

Further, so long as you consider America as one monolithic entity, you will be steered wrong. Imagine instead of one country, 50 countries, and most of those divided into their own little regions (which may or may not resemble the counties on the map). Each region has its own traditional customs, some of which are shared by surrounding regions, others of which are not shared or only shared by a region on the other side of the country. And that’s just a general overview. Remember, America really is like any other country, in that it gets more complicated the more you want to know about it.

And therein people end up simplifying things, until America represents only a few things on someone’s list. The land of the free. An oppressive imperial state. The land of oppurtunity. Freedom of speech. Bushitler. Free love. Commercialism. Consumerism. Corporatism. Fascism. Capitalism. Democracy. Replublic.

Most commentators have neither the time nor the incentive to explain all that. Instead, they go for the sound bite, picking and choosing what they think will give them the strongest backing for whatever argument they’re peddling.

Take the peddlers with a grain of salt

That assumption is that the universe, a naturally entropic entity, is in fact trying to find ways to survive despite itself, and uses life, and it’s evolution to intelligence, to find ways to beat that entropic nature.

So the singularity isn’t about creating God or finding God, so much as about taking the first step in saving God.

i also have a remark about the debate itself, namely that it is obvious where the participants hail from. in hardly any other (western) country would you find anyone being afraid of getting into trouble at a church camp or having struggles with their mothers over their, well, wider points of view. this, paired with the earlier notion of you guys suggesting a soft takeoff to best happen within the US gives me the creeps, to be honest. do you really consider yourself and your nation to be the paragon of ethics in the world? neither your governments nor your major companies ethical policies suggest so, at least not from a european (actually, rest-of-the-world) view. to be honest, having a recursively evolving ai instilled with american/christian ethical values around on this planet looks no different to me than hard takeoff. but bear with me, i may be prejudiced by impartial news coverage.

One of the things Ray does not seem to consider is that we already live forever. The human soul is immortal.
. . .
Since we are immortal, there is good reason to believe that the civilization of human souls from which we come when we are born is already a vastly superior civilization than that on the earth today. Imagine a civilization a million years or a billion years past the singularity, and the behavior of what are called “spirits” is not so farfetched. A quite reasonable conclusion is that we have already passed the singularity.